Moderadores: Alan78, Tropic, Operadores, Moderadores
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¿Una es de antes del derrumbe y otra de despues? tengo que seguir buscando 
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. . : ¿salen chispas? ¿poca estabilidad en pista? ¿fuego? .... ostias!! El tren de aterrizaje sin abrir!! upppsSS!! 
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: Gracias a las gafas de sol que le protegina un poco del viento, consiguió ver para aterrizar. No, no fui yo Murphy siempre esta al acecho.Tropic escribió:... En cualquier caso, zarpas de estas se meten ...
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. Uno de los cheriffs de Buffalo se preguntaba como narices se podían haber olvidado de sacar el tren de aterrizaje en el hidroavión cuando un "piiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiI" debería haberle dado una pista al piloto ¿avisa "saca el tren, gañán"? 
Pues es precisamente la alarma de 'QUE ESTAS ATERRIZANDO SIN SACAR EL TREN, FORREST'Alan78 escribió:... El pitido continuo que se escucha a la hora de aproximarse a pista ¿de qué se supone que es? ...
. Se suele activar si al reducir gases por debajo de un XX% el tren sigue arriba.Se metía hidráulicamente y se sacaba por la acción de un mecanismo de muelles.El tren del He-162.... ¿es totalmente mecánico sin hidráulicas externas?
TELVM escribió:Pues es precisamente la alarma de 'QUE ESTAS ATERRIZANDO SIN SACAR EL TREN, FORREST'Alan78 escribió:... El pitido continuo que se escucha a la hora de aproximarse a pista ¿de qué se supone que es? ...
Entonces no hay excusa. Anda que no da por saco el pitidito No está mal ¿no?TELVM escribió:Se metía hidráulicamente y se sacaba por la acción de un mecanismo de muelles.
. Cuando hay averías hidráulicas es un problema serio, salvo que haya mecanismo manual de emergencia para bajar el tren. Si el mecanismo es simple y eficaz... menos elementos que puedan fallar Yep, hace tiempo lo había visto en un documental y al parecer se tuvieron que romper bastante la cabeza para que rulase fino sin atrancarse en el intento (les ocurrió en el laboratorio varias vecesAres escribió:si no me falla la memoria el tren del airbus 380 tiene un mecanismo de seguridad por si falla la hidraulica, quita un seguro y el tren cae por su propio peso abriendo compuertas y todo.
). Me quiere sonar que también había aviones que tenían una manivela para bajar el tren a mano en caso de fallo hidráulico 
, la manivela de emergencia del B-17:
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Wiki escribió:On 14 September, Sikh and Zulu landed and then covered Operation Agreement, a commando raid on Tobruk. Sikh was hit and sunk by German Eighty-eight FlaK anti-aircraft batteries — 115 men were lost, and many more were taken prisoner.
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Stop watching your history-entertainment series, and get yourself some good books to read. Compared to that bullshit, i really tried to separate facts from fiction.
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I do read books. It seems you do not.
There were 17 gun emplacements at Tobruk
48 guns were italian
30 were German.
The German accounts are patently wrong in that they claim they sank 2 Destroyers when only 1 was sunk in the Harbour (Sikh)
Zulu was sunk the next day by Aircraft and well out to sea. It was an Italian AC that sunk Zulu but you will find it was aslo claimed as a victim by the Luftwaffe.
The following 2 books repeat the totaly false and made up claim that 2 Destroyers were sunk.
You have to wonder how AA crews on the shore and looking at the wreck of 1 Destroyer got confused and claimed it was 2!
German Eighty-Eight in Combat. The Scourge of Allied Armor
Schiffer 1992 ISBN 0887403417
page 27
John Hasleden was Chief of the LRDG. He was already in favor of an attack of Tobruk, in which the oil tanks, safe from bombs, would be blown up. From this plan there gradually developed a combined land, air and sea operation — five hundred kilometers behind the front lines.
From the very start, Operation "Agreement" was a risky procedure, but intelligence reported only a weak garrison of
two Italian battalions, about 1000 Germans— mostly technical personnel — and numerous repair shops. But when the British
commandos reached Tobruk, this information turned out to be fatally wrong: they were not able to knock out the decisively
important 88mm batteries on the peninsula or at the airport. The radio and telephone centers remained intact. Thus Hasleden andthe fleet were already half beaten.
At 5:10 AM on September 14, Oberleutnant Vieweg's 88mm battery opened fire on the destroyer HMS Sikh, which was supporting the landing. The first salvo went too far, but the second struck home. "All guns fire directly on the target at will." It was the simplest target shooting, even though the Flak gunners were long out of practice at firing on sea targets. Via the command apparatus, Vieweg coordinated the whole battery and had high Flak shells explode a few meters over the deck of the "Sikh."
The "Sikh" moved along the coast with its shoreward side on fire. The destroyer "Zulu" tried to take the "Sikh" in tow despite its own damage. But a lucky hit by an 88 shell cut the towlines. The crew of the "Sikh" abandoned ship. Their captain and some of the 350-man crew were rescued later. The "Zulu" was also hit and sunk by the Flak guns. Only the small hunt destroyers got away, some of them badly damaged.
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German Flak In World War II
Schiffer 1998. ISBN 0764303996
page 52
The Flak units scored an unusual victory in the fighting around Tobruk, where two British destroyers were sunk by them.
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One also must ask why the 48 Italain guns (some much larger that the 88) never got any hits!
Oh and this next bit is not from The History Channel either, you should try the printed word sometime.
Destroyer Down, an Account Of Destroyer Losses 1939-45.
Pen & Sword 2010
ISBN 1848842708
page136
HMS Sikh
On Sunday 13 September at 0545 the Sikh, Captain Stjohn Micklethwait, and Zulu, Commander Richard White, sailed from Alexandria with the marines and their landing craft. By 0300 they were off the beach where the marines were to make ships appear to resemble Italian destroyers. After landing the marines Sikh and Zulu were to break through the boom at Tobruk harbour. They were then to destroy whatever they could in the way of shipping. After that they would list ship to 15 degrees, light fires on the upper deck, and make smoke. It was hoped that this ruse would lead enemy aircraft to believe that they were Italian destroyers in a sinking condition. By 0348 the first contingent of marines were heading towards the beach. Sikh and Zulu moved seaward for 25 minutes.
They then closed the shore in readiness to meet the returning craft and send a second detail shoreward. An observer in Zulu comments: Nothing much happened to us after that for almost an hour. Anti-aircraft fire ashore ceased and the searchlights went out after a last tired sweep of the sea and sky. Then Tobruk disappeared in utter darkness and became as silent as a dead city. We spent some time wondering what was happening to the boys in the landing craft. Suddenly, just after 0500, a searchlight or two flickered on and began waving across the sea as if seeking something. Apparently the alarm had been given on land. We had not long to wait for this to be confirmed. Bright flashes flickered against the blackness, followed by thumps, and then the eerie moan of shells came to us on the bridge. The shore batteries were firing at us. Sikh was the first to be gripped by the searchlights. She then came under fire.
A hit damaged the forced lubrication system to the main engine gearing, making it likely that the main engines would seize. Further, her steering was put out of effective control. Fiercely ablaze forward, Sikh at 10 knots went round in circles. At 0250 Captain Micklethwait signalled Zulu that the Sikh had been seriously damaged. Twenty-five minutes later White was ordered to take Sikh in tow. The Zulu, herself damaged by gunfire, closed Sikh. Commander White, in a fine display of seamanship, brought round Zulu's stern to meet Sikh's bow.
Unfortunately owing to a combination of factors the line from Zulu was not taken up. The two ships were by now easy targets for the shore batteries and were repeatedly hit. Another fire broke out aft in Sikh. In the grey light of dawn the destroyers' activities were clearly visible from the shore as Commander White manoeuvred for another attempt at passing a line. Though the line was successfully passed it snapped after being made fast. White circled and came in to try again. A line was passed and the hawser that followed made fast in Sikh. Then by a cruel stroke of luck the hawser was parted by a shell which struck Zulu's quarter-deck. For Sikh the freak hit on the hawser spelt the end. Both destroyers had received considerable punishment and it was by then broad daylight. A fourth attempt by Zulu to pass a tow was forbidden by Captain Micklethwait. Wait Ten Minutes, was his reply to White's signal as to whether he should draw alongside the Sikh to take off the crew. In Zulu it was assumed that the order to wait ten minutes was to enable Sikh to make smoke to cover the transfer. Zulu was also making smoke when towards 0710 she was signalled by Sikh to leave the area. Coastal guns were hitting both ships with ease. It was now too hazardous for Zulu to remain within range of the enemy guns. Commander White with the greatest reluctance, turned away Goodbye. God Bless You, signalled White. Thanks. Cheerio, was the brief reply A Zulu eye-witness states:
With heavy hearts we turned out to sea and raced away. There were still a few landing craft round Sikh, but it was impossible to tell whether those contained further installments of troops who were to land, or some who had returned from shore. For the next 10 minutes the batteries continued to fire at us and shells whistled down fairly close, but now we were moving at high speed and every second getting farther away. No further hits were scored on this ship, but I fear that Axis gunners had the easiest target of a lifetime in the Sikh. While we were racing away, and until she slipped out of sight behind the horizon, shore guns continued to fire at her. I could see the columns of water leaping up on all sides of the stricken vessel, and smoke pouring from her. But Sikh refused to give in. For every flash from the shore guns, I saw a defiant answering flash from the guns of the crippled ship. I could still see those flashes when she was nothing more than a tiny speck at the base of a huge column of dirty grey smoke. X gun, the last of Sikh's 4.7s to keep firing, fell silent only when its ammunition ran out. With Zulu having gone, Sikh took the full anger of every gun within range. Around 0800 Captain Micklethwait ordered abandon ship. Sikh had no boats, their place having been taken up by landing craft. Carley rafts were lowered for the wounded, and anything floatable was thrown overboard. Scuttling charges were detonated and Captain Micklethwait went below to check that Sikh was flooding. Satisfied with the result, he returned to the upper deck and jumped into the sea. Thirty minutes later he saw his command go down.
